I was a guest on the Highly Sensitive Podcast with Lauren LaSalle.
I shared about how I learned I was a Highly Sensitive Person (HSP) and gave three tips about how to calm your nervous system as an HSP.
(Scroll down for the transcript.)
My HSP Story
Lauren: What was your experience like discovering that you were highly sensitive?
Joanne: I heard about it a couple years back during my pre-license years in therapy.
I think just the lights went on and everything kind of clicked and made sense in terms of just how readily aggravated I get over sensory experiences, especially in my environment.
I used to label myself as being very asocial and withdrawn and things like that.
I used to live with my in-laws for a good number of years. Being in a household full of vivacious people with all these sounds, I found myself coming home from work, going straight into my bedroom, turning off all the lights, putting my earplugs in, and going into bed.
Or in other times, we would have a big family gathering where they would hangout until past midnight. I would usually be the first to duck out because my eyes were glazing over from all of the activity and energy and I wouldn’t really be listening anymore.
I found out later that my in-laws wondered whether I was okay or thought that I didn’t like them.
Once I learned that I was HSP, how my body felt and what I did all made sense.
I explained to my in-laws that my body needed to decompress from all that happened during the day, and that it wasn’t personal. Because a lot of them were also HSPs, they understood. Now they know how to interpret my reactions.
To smooth things over, nowadays I just tell people, “Hey, I need to go decompress. I’ll be back in 20 minutes” and help my body and brain recharge. It’s a neutral, regular, and routine thing I do these days.
Lauren: Wow. I can't even imagine living with, I mean, even my own parents again, let alone my in-laws. That sounds really tough as an HSP.
Joanne: Fortunately, my in-laws are really great. They're emotionally fluent enough where I can share how I'm feeling and they're okay.
It's more the sensory experiences of just there being a lot of chatter I hear through the walls and pots and pans clanging and things like that.
I think having agency over my own immediate space has been super helpful. Having my own office space was actually a huge plus for my own personal emotional and mental health, because I get to control the space however I want to and add all kinds of very soothing features to it in ways that I wouldn't have been able to at home.
What is Trauma?
Lauren: Not only are you highly sensitive, but you are also a therapist who works with highly sensitive people. What are some examples of how normal events can be traumatic for HSPs and kind of what can cause this to happen?
Joanne: I like thinking about things through the lens of our nervous system in terms of how overwhelmed it gets.
Often when people think about reactivity, they think about the actions people do in response to being stressed. There's less of a focus about how a person gets stressed to begin with.
I would say there is a general window by which we are supposed to be stimulated throughout the day, like the sun rises or the coffee machine works, et cetera. Generally we're supposed to take those stimuli and use them to kind of wake up and engage the day.
It's just that for HSPs that window is a lot smaller where we can get readily flooded all too easily and non HSPs they're like, I don't even notice a difference.
When that overstimulation happens for an extended period of time it really wears away at the body, at the nervous system with cortisol (the stress hormones) constantly coursing through our veins. Cortisol has been shown to actually erode some aspects of our bodily function, it actually impacts some organs.
It's this deadly cycle where we get overstimulated more readily, our bodies are under a lot of strain, we make reactive decisions that often make hard things worse, and then there's more strain and then it just keeps spiraling through.
Generally I define trauma more openly than other therapists might. I don't just consider those big dramatic events, like a car crash or assault or things like that as trauma. I define trauma as any event, big or small, that gives people a very concentrated set of feeling out of control, feeling like they're in danger, or feeling embarrassed.
That last piece would I think give a lot of people more empathy towards themselves.
If a person when they're growing up in their elementary school classroom gets called on by a teacher to answer a question on the board, some kids might be like, oh, this is super exciting I can finally show off what I can do, and they answer the question on the board, that's taken as a very positive experience. But for a lot of people, especially HSPs, who are called on the spot, they weren't expecting it.
Getting called on itself is very stressful on top of getting all this attention from everyone in the classroom, and then they might actually turn beat red. Therefore also losing control over their own bodily experiences and would be super embarrassed. They will be socially isolated, or at least internally, that's how they would interpret it.
That event, which normally will be considered a very normal, day-to-day experience, is a traumatic event. Later down the line, the person might have a lot of anxiety when it comes to giving presentations at work.
These are the actual kinds of situations that I help my therapy clients with in the present day.
Lauren: I love that example because as you were talking about it, I started to feel anxious. Because I was one of those people where if the teacher called on me, even if I knew the answer, it was a total blank. Like, I have no idea what's going on. I feel all hot and like everybody's looking at me and like I just kind of want to disappear. So I can totally relate to that, and I'm sure a lot of people will be able to as well.
Joanne: Being sensitive not just towards being put on the spot, but also other people's energies and emotions, and also sensitivity towards one’s own bodily functions.t's kind of like a triple, quadruple dose of stimulation.
It will definitely lead people to shut down and afterwards having shut down then there's a lot of the shame talk. Like, oh, why couldn't I be like Tommy? Or why did I do this? Like, I'm so dumb, et cetera.
And that's adding several extra layers.
Lauren: I like how you define trauma too, because I think I've done that as well with my clients. I think a lot of people just think, oh, trauma is these big events that happen, but it really can be seemingly smaller events. Just because it doesn't affect one person negatively doesn't mean that it's not going to really, really affect somebody else and have a lasting impact on them. I really like that definition.
Joanne: What I also like about that definition is that we can also flip it upside down to talk about what kinds of experiences help an HSP heal, or general person, but HSPs all the more.
If trauma is any experience, big or small, that leads a person to feel super out of control, super in danger or embarrassed, then healing would be any experience, big or small, that helps a person feel like they're in self-control, that they're super safe and secure and feeling seen, known and validated.
Finding ways to give ourselves more of those experiences on purpose, integrating that into our day-to-day lives is super important, because in the same way that we would be bothered more readily by different things that come up, we could also be readily soothed then for non HSPs.
It goes both ways. That's the nice thing about it.
Responsiveness and Attunement
Lauren: I think that's so interesting that research has found that. It's just a really strange thing. I wouldn't have thought that that would be the case. I guess it's kind of sad in a way, but it's kind of nice also that even though we can be negatively affected by things more than the average person, we can actually be more affected by positive things, too.
Joanne: It eventually kind of breaks even, you know?
It's just that neutral stimulation. Less so having a moral charge of good and bad towards it.
I think for that reason, those who are highly sensitive or are in relationships with HSPs need to be particularly attentive to noticing things in our environment like, five senses.
Like bringing in more greenery, for example.
Even those small things can have their own compound interest, if you will. It just keeps snowballing so that even when a person comes home, if their environment is very soothing, then they can actually recharge a lot more quickly than for someone who's not particularly paying attention and they're still getting aggravated along the way.
I would say that the HSP trait prompts one to need more responsiveness and attunement and more intentionality to their daily experiences.
Lauren: I agree. And I've started to try, I mean, now I have a six month old at home so that's just another added layer on top of everything. As a new mom you hear, you don't have to keep up with the dishes and all of this, it's okay because you're busy, which I totally agree with. But on the flip side, if I don't, it stresses me out. If there's stuff all over the place, I lose my mind. So I know that for my own mental health, I also have to be as much on top of dishes, laundry, and cleaning up clutter as I can be. Otherwise it's going to go rapidly downhill.
Joanne: It's not about being particular or about having high standards or whatnot. The alternative is I'm just going to be irritable all the time.
We give our nervous systems a chance to breathe more easily.
Using Brainspotting to Decompress
Lauren: So what are some other things that we can do to help our nervous systems other than being really intentional about our surroundings?
Joanne: There are two approaches that I use most of the time in therapy. One is the Enneagram Personality framework. The other is called brainspotting, which is a derivative of EMDR, another trauma therapy technique.
Brainspotting is actually what we do naturally, just not on purpose.
If you've ever seen a veteran who is back in civilian life and they're kind of sitting on a bench and they're staring off into space. That's an example of brainspotting.
The person doesn't quite know that they're internally processing, but their lizard brain is definitely trying to metabolize some stressful things. Obviously, for veterans, they've gone through a lot.
HSPs tend to do that, staring off into space a lot more often. It's just that the idea of staring off into space is not socially acceptable. It's as if someone is not engaged or disinterested or whatever.
Often when someone is sitting, staring off into space, the people around them are like, hey, are you okay?
But in actuality, the person's brain is saying, no, I just need to sit and do nothing and decompress.
What I recommend for clients who come in, they find out that they're HSP or they've known for some time, but they're wanting to know how can I de-stress as soon as possible. I would say give yourself permission to sit and zone out for at least five minutes uninterrupted.
The emphasis is on permission.
Often when we have those experiences, when we're checked out, there's a lot of judgment and shame around it. When our body's actually trying to recover, when we bring in that judgment, then that actually sets up a whole bunch of triggers that ends up adding more stress than even before we start zoning out.
If a person can give themselves at least three to five minutes of zone out time throughout the day. Great!
If a person does it five minutes every hour, the five minutes will help decompress whatever happened within that 55 minutes prior, and then again, and again, and again. Really taking advantage of breaks.
Let's say a person's work environment is not conducive to that kind of stuff. Where it's an open office and everyone's talking all the time. Excuse yourself to go to the restroom and then just sit there for a couple extra minutes so that you can have uninterrupted time where you can just allow your body to metabolize whatever comes up.
Brainspotting traditionally is using specifically one's eye position and zoning out while looking at that particular spot. It's just that a lot of people might do so accidentally where they're zooming in on a negative experience and then end up ruminating.
My encouragement for people is that instead of focusing on what's bothering them to scan their body. Look for the most neutral or the most pleasant or grounding spot.
Then while they're focusing on that spot notice where their eyes naturally gravitate towards and then stare there… for not too long because this is originally a therapy approach, so it really should be done with a therapist. Especially when processing difficult things. But because our bodies reflexively do it anyway, it will be good for people to try that on purpose.
An idea with brainspotting is where you look affects how you feel. So it's kind of hacking that towards HSPs.
Lauren: That's so cool! I'm guessing doing this might help with falling asleep at night. I know a lot of us, if we have trouble falling asleep, it's because our brain won't shut off. I'm guessing if you give yourself breaks during the day to process things instead of leaving it all to when you're trying to fall asleep, then it will help with the time it takes to fall asleep.
Joanne: Focusing on a very soothed or relaxed part of your body, noticing where your eye naturally drifts to and staring off in that place and just noticing whatever comes up.
We don't have to analyze or anything. It's better that we don't analyze.
Another approach is to focus on what you would like to feel. Thinking of either a time in your life, a memory, or if you don't have a particular memory, make up a scenario.
For some people it might be laying in a hammock with a cocktail in your hand in front of the beach. Focusing on that until you experience the body sensations and then notice where your eye looks and then stare there.
You can use either of those approaches. No fancy equipment necessary. You could actually do this while you're laying in bed in the dark. It's kind of a nice, handy way to do so.
Lauren: I'm gonna try that. I've heard of brainspotting through working, but I've never, gone further than just hearing about what it is. So that's really interesting to learn about that. I'm glad you brought that.
Joanne: We don't have one brain, we have three, and they're very much interconnected.
So if someone, having gone through a bad situation, and they have negative emotions and their body shows it. Facial expressions or the posture or whatnot. The reverse is also true as well.
When people actually simulate a posture that's associated with either positive or relaxed experiences, maybe even power postures, that's something that has been gaining more popularity nowadays, that can also affect how we feel on the inside.
It's just that the highly sensitive person trait often is associated with social experiences of making oneself small or meek or gentle or quiet, caring, et cetera.
I would actually even encourage HSPs to practice living as if they're not HSPs, at least in their bodies. That can actually create a different feedback loop.
Lauren: I like that.
Joanne: I might encourage a non HSPs to actually practice being like HSPs. So it goes both ways
Lauren: I'm so glad you brought all of this to the podcast because I hadn't talked about some of these things before. Your expertise is much appreciated.
Joanne: It's a great space. I'm really thankful that you have this avenue for people to really learn more about themselves and take good care.
Top Two, Bottom Two
Lauren: Thank you. So is there anything that we haven't talked about yet that you wanted to make sure you brought up?
Joanne: In terms of the five senses, one thing I talk about with people is in noticing which of the five senses are your top two? Like you notice it all too readily. They either bother you or they please you very easily.
Then what are your bottom two senses?
For me, I'm super easily affected by sight and touch. My bottom two senses are taste and smell.
It actually has been a very healing journey for me personally. I used to dissociate a lot. In actually tapping into those bottom two senses and trying to reconnect with my physical body.
I happen to do so by making cocktails. That's been a fun experience for me because I'm really focusing in on what usually takes more effort. That's helped me to connect with a present versus drifting away into wherever I tend to go in my mind and my feelings.
Lauren: I like that.
So how can people connect with you?
Joanne: I have my website, olivemecounseling.com. I'm also on Facebook and Instagram. I do also have a side business called Intelligent Emotions and that is an online course where I help people find out how to navigate with their big feelings.
Often if we leave our big feelings as they are, they tend to spiral into a vortex. It's a self paced course where people can find out that emotions are actually very logical and they actually have a system of their own. We're just not ever taught about it. Those two things:
OliveMe Counseling or Intelligent Emotions, that's the name of the course.
Lauren: Thank you so much for being here. I think a lot of people will benefit from what you shared with us.
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© Copyright 2022 Joanne B. Kim. All rights reserved.
JOANNE B. KIM, LMFT
Joanne is a Licensed Marriage & Family Therapist and Certified Brainspotting Practitioner in San Jose, CA. She helps people EXHAUSTED by anxiety, shame, and an allergic reaction to anger create VIBRANT relationships where they matter, too.
Many of her clients are:
(1) the highly responsible, conscientious, and empathic types
(2) Enneagram Type Ones, Twos, Fours, or Nines
(3) Highly Sensitive Persons (HSPs)
The most common words spoken by those who’ve sat with Joanne:
“I thought it was just me. I’m NOT crazy!”
“I can finally figure out what to do with all these feelings!”
The three Enneagram instincts (Self-Preservation, Social, and Sexual) instincts show up in the way we engage our lives and creative endeavors. Check out this conversation with Rim from The Empowered Sensitive and Creative Podcast!